IBM Job Ad Calls For a Minimum 12 Years' Experience With Kubernetes -- Which is Six Years Old (theregister.com)
- Reference: 0133359074
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/20/07/14/1859229/ibm-job-ad-calls-for-a-minimum-12-years-experience-with-kubernetes----which-is-six-years-old
- Source link: https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/13/ibm_kubernetes_experience_job_ad/
> Which is a little odd because the first GitHub commit for the project was [1]made on June 7, 2014 . And the feature freeze for version 1.0 was announced on May 22, 2015. Sharp-minded Reg readers will have recognised that -- absent time travel -- it is therefore not possible for anyone to have 12 years' experience with Kubernetes. The ad is sadly silent on just how IBM expects candidates will have found the time to accumulate a dozen years' experience in a six-year-old project.
[1] https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/13/ibm_kubernetes_experience_job_ad/
and need Doctorate / PHD. For $100K/y bay area (Score:2)
and need Doctorate / PHD. For $100K/y bay area in office needed.
Re: (Score:3)
> and need Doctorate / PHD. For $100K/y bay area in office needed.
... must be able to divide by zero -- and configure a PostScript printer.
Re: (Score:2)
> must be able to divide by zero
Okay
> -- and configure a PostScript printer.
uh...
And come in on Saturdays (Score:2)
that's be great.
Re:and need Doctorate / PHD. For $100K/y bay area (Score:5, Insightful)
When I see things like this, I automatically assume that the purpose for the job posting is to create a job that nobody in the U.S. is qualified for, so that they can then ask for an H1-B and "legitimately" say that they couldn't find a qualified American candidate. Remember that a contracting firm can legitimately have 12 (cumulative) years of experience in something that has been around for only 6 years. :-)
Re: (Score:2)
Absolutely. We saw ads for 7 years of Java experience when it was only 5 years old.
And we saw lots of ads with a strange list of requirements. Obviously written to fit the H1-B applicant they had in the pipeline, but not likely to fit any American applicant. Thus justifying not hiring the American at prevailing wages.
Need the Doctor (Score:2)
> and need Doctorate
If you need 12 years of experience with something 6 years old you do not need a doctorate, you need the Doctor.
Re: (Score:2)
Or you need two people who each have six, working for the same contractor.
Outsourcing and "what we need done that we can't find people for domestically". It's magical.
Obviously ... (Score:2)
IBM wants someone who has worked 6 years of double-shifts as a Kubernetes admin ...
Not new, unfortunately. (Score:2)
...as the ongoing war between the dipshits in HR and technical people continues.
I seem to recall this coming up on Slashdot in the dot-com days- companies asking for X years experience with Java when it had only been around YX years.
Re: (Score:2)
> ...as the ongoing war between the dipshits in HR and technical people continues.
> I seem to recall this coming up on Slashdot in the dot-com days- companies asking for X years experience with Java when it had only been around YX years.
Oops... I see /. doesn't like "less than" symbols. That should read "Y less than X years".
Re: (Score:1)
What you need is "<"
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Because "experience with $X" always translates into "5+ years in $X" between the time the job req is handed to HR and it appears on the public facing job listings.
It's not just that these requirements get exaggerated, but sometimes they're watered down and turned into something too generic as well. I remember having three open positions in our group, for three different jobs with different preferred domain skill sets, and the three job reqs ended up looking nearly identical. I gave one interview a few ye
So... (Score:2)
which inertial frame of reference is 2x faster and a low cost region? I suspect there will be some visa applications for extra-terrestrial candidates.
They have someone in mind (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a classic technique to work around labor laws when you want to hire one specific person but are required by law to post the job offer publicly.
Include a condition impossible to satisfy, and no-one will apply for the job, except the person you want to hire which has been instructed to apply regardless.
Re: (Score:1)
This is merely an extremely egregious example of something that companies have been doing forever.
If you don't have 12+ years of Kubernachos experience they can still hire you if they want to. There is no legal requirement that a company must hire only people who meet all the posted job requirements. Or, they can not hire you for not meeting the job requirements.
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You didn't invent Kubernetes? Not hired.
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Yup. One of the conditions for a H1-B visa (and a lot of other work visas) is that you have to advertise the position for a certain amount of time to first give any qualified American a chance to apply for the job. Slipping in impossible qualifications like this is a common tactic to guarantee that no American applies for the job, thereby "proving" that the foreigner "needs" to be granted an H1-B visa so the company can hire him.
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It is not that no one will apply, it is that even if the inventor applies they can mark application "non-compliant" as they do not meet one of the requirements. Hence they are eliminated from 'qualified candidates'. That is what allows company to then go H1-B visa and hire someone who in actuality doesn't have requirements but claims they do & magically are identified as 'qualified candidate'.
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It is illegal to tailor the job requirements for the candidates. I have done many green card process, H1B process etc. I have to list the duties and the job first and justify every qualification citing "This job function needs this qualification". I comply with the law in letter and in spirit. I would not hire a foreigner if a qualified US candidate is available.
I am not saying no one does such tailoring. But companies with good reputation and strong governance dont do this.
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companies with good reputation and strong governance dont do this.
it's not your fault; the other 99%+ of companies just give you a bad name.
On the other hand (Score:2)
I have been a hiring manager for H1Bs. We need the LCA to be pretty generic as we dont generally have a candidate lined up when we file the LCA. Its a consulting setup and things move fast - from the time the client gives us a req they expect candidates ready to interview in 2 weeks so we immediately file an LCA while sourcing - preference is for non H1B as then we dont have to wait for an H1 transfer but given the field - consulting - most of the candidates do turn up to be H1B.
We hardly ever get good can
Re: (Score:1)
> I have been a hiring manager for H1Bs. We need the LCA to be pretty generic as we dont generally have a candidate lined up when we file the LCA. Its a consulting setup...
Consulting? So it's a "body shop". H1B's were intended to fill specific shortages , not supply a pool of relatively cheap generic IT labor.
Wait... isn't this code for a precursor to picking (Score:5, Insightful)
an H1B visa candidate?
"Well, nobody in America had the experience we listed, so we went overseas to find a candidate."
One of three things (Score:4, Insightful)
This is one of three things. The first possibility, and most likely, is it's a puke listing where no one can qualify so they can justify having to hire foreign for cheaper. The second, and extremely plausible possibility is some douche-shoe in HR got handed the final draft of the job requirements then pulled some random number out of their ass for experience and popped it up. I've had that one happen to a job I wrote the description and requirements for, HR "fixed" those requirements before posting, and it took WEEKS to get them to change it back. And we're a relatively small business.
The third possibility is they want to see if they can get the candidates to be scum-sucking liars so they fit appropriately into the business culture. Since it's not possible to actually meet the requirements, who's willing to just flat out lie to get the job?
Re: (Score:2)
All 3 are likely, but it is also possible that this is a placeholder listing. During the dotcom bust many companies continued to advertise for positions that they were not going to hire for. Why? Because they needed to look like they were operating successfully and needed to add staff, while in fact they were shedding staff.
I had applied to a digital video editing supplier with a good match, and got no response. A co-worker of mine used to work there and checked through his contacts to find out that ther
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> the candidates to be scum-sucking liars so they fit appropriately into the business culture.
This is what I've always assumed is going on, since I've seen this shit for decades, much longer than I've been hearing about H1B visa hijinks.
By requiring dishonesty to get the job, you ensure that only people willing to bend the truth will apply.
And furthermore, you know they lied on their resume so you can always hold that over their head...
Re: (Score:2)
I'd say the 2nd possibility is much more likely. Or a simple variation of it, where they want someone with 12 years experience (ideally in general systems admin or server virtualization tech, where anything from vmware to citrix to chroot jails and openVZ qualifies.) And they want someone with kubernetes experience. And it got written as "12 year kubernetes experience".
I see something like this and I don't hesitate to apply if I'm pretty sure I've got the experience I think they need.
A big part any job is
Re: (Score:2)
I had one job where I interviewed well and my friend who worked there claimed I was a shoe in because everyone liked me a lot. Then a few days later I get told I didn't get the job, because the job opening had been removed. Apparently as it turns out, the job was intended for the buddy of a higher up, but when the buddy took a job somewhere else then there was no more need to hire someone...
Re: (Score:2)
> ... then pulled some random number out of their ass ...
... then demanded the job-market deliver a better employee ...
Fixed that for you.
I'm convinced many corporations aren't looking for a good employee, they're demanding a cheap upgrade.
This sort of mistake happens all the time (Score:2)
Calm yourselves. This sort of mistake happens all the time, as anyone in tech who's had to look for work already knows.
Re: (Score:1)
Maybe, but that makes me wonder how many people actually review/approve those ads.
Maybe they are trying to recruit Donald Trump (Score:1)
I'm sure he's got the experience. He's a natural.
HR being HR ? (Score:2)
Either it is one of these labor laws circumventing methods described above or it is the HR people being dumbasses like always. I wonder why corporate America burdens itself with HR people in the first place.
Sounds familiar (Score:2)
[1]This guy posted a similar remark [9cache.com] when he found a job listing which asked for more years experience than was possible.
[1] https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aeDDLAq_460s.jpg
Such literal thinking here (Score:2)
Obviously they’re looking for someone who works smarter, not harder. Someone who can shift paradigms and think outside the box with the will of the warrior.
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Also helpful if they have mastery over time so that they can resolve time paradoxes.
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> Also helpful if they have mastery over time so that they can resolve time paradoxes.
If you have the Will of the Warrior, nothing is impossible.
no problem for some people (Score:2)
I once interviewed a guy who claimed to have 20 years of experience with a software suite that was only 16 years old.
done on purpose. (Score:2)
I've actually come to learn (at least sometimes), that errors like this are intended to "keep" the job from being filled by specific people.
The mythical 2080 hour work year (Score:1)
Lawyers have known this for years: work 80+ hour work weeks baby!
26 Years Experience in IOS development (Score:2)
Yep, it's true. I can honestly say I have 26 years of IOS development.
Head hunters get all excited when they come to this conclusion when glancing at my linkedin profile.
The devil in the details is that I joined Cisco, working on IOS, in '94 and for the last decade I've been writing Apps on iOS (Apple Licenses the name from Cisco)
Re: (Score:2)
Ha, I got a job when I was asked about $X and I assumed he was talking about $Y, because the names were similar. So I said "ya, I've used that lots, here's a project I did with it, etc, etc." It wasn't a good job, but I was desparate, and the boss just wanted someone who could code.
Windows 2000 Server (Score:2)
Reminds me of the time we had a job open in 2002 wanting 5 years of experience in Windows 2000 server.
Typo (Score:2)
While it's always fun to laugh at these sorts of postings, it's also possible the HR rep merely fat-fingered the requirements, and they're actually looking for someone with 2 years of Kubernetes experience. Then again I haven't looked at their other listings, so maybe this is par for the course for IBM.
Easy Fix (Score:1)
What's the big deal. IBM is only hiring identical twins with the same experience.
Reminds me of an ad I saw in 1999.... (Score:2)
... they wanted 10 years of on-the-job Linux experience.
I was urgently needing work at the time and applied anyways, but never got called back for that one.
They want liars (Score:3)
They are a consulting division so they want people who can li.. oops I mean, they want people who can transform data at scale in order to proactively adapt performance metrics to achieve dynamic results.
So much venom (Score:3)
This is a manager who asked for (12 years experience) and (kubernetes) and an HR person who posted "12 years experience using kubernetes". Never attribute to malice what can be ascribed to mere incompetence.
Besides if you submit a resume and have 12 years experience and the keywork "kubernetes" it will pass. No one can tell how much experience per keyword you have. Keywords are binary, mostly.
Re: (Score:2)
Never attribute to malice...
Should be grounds for discrimination lawsuit (Score:1)
This practice was captured in a secretly taken video of a conference teaching companies how to get more H1B candidates and should be grounds for a discrimination lawsuit.
When you put up impossible criteria, you dissuade potential candidates from applying or even eliminate them based on this criteria.
Then you set this particular requirement aside to hire the h1b resource you wanted all along since no one met the requirement.
Re: (Score:1)
The video is on Youtube... left that off of my post.
Here's a reference
[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
And here's the original
[2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx--jNQYNgA
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU
What's a little lie here and there? (Score:1)
Or a big resume full of lies. Reminds me of someone who claimed to have intimate knowledge of various networking technologies such as VxLAN, MPLS, Segment Routing, etc. They couldn't even describe the concept of segmentation (let alone micro-segmentation) to us but they sure did could up a diagram from their old employer saying "I worked on this" a lot. This same person tried to google answers to our questions on another monitor off to the side, and they thought they were being sneaky by muting themselves s
Startup Experience (Score:2)
If you've worked at startups for four years with 100+ hour weeks, that's easily a dozen years of experience.
I can't apply.... (Score:1)
but my dog can!
Im not surprised (Score:2)
I mean, we've seen this in the past. In this case I'm referring to in the earlier 2000's seeing ads for .NET developers needing 10 years experience using it.
I tend to take what a posting says with a grain of salt. Just get into an interview and get some back and fourth going. Its why on my resume i stick languages and buzzwords in that I've touched, but maybe not mastered (I've worked with Java for example, but I'm hardle an intermediate with it), or maybe no longer relivant to me. I still have perl lis
All your base (Score:2)
I think I'll apply, with 12 years - in base 3.
Just need to check that the pay isn't in ternary.
It's a 2 people job (Score:2)
Obviously.
Bullshit (Score:2)
This is actually quite a smart test to see how applicants handle bullshit. Very clever, IBM.
You passed the first test. (Score:2)
If you know that Kubernetes is only six years old and say so, you have just passed the first screening question in the interview. Good luck with the next one!
How's this a story? (Score:2)
If I was to report every job ad that asks for 10 years experience in a field that only existed for 5 by someone with at least a PhD in a relevant field but not older than 20 years for no more than 50k a year, the front page of Slashdot would be mine exclusively.
simple (Score:4, Funny)
This is IBMs way of saying they only want to hire people who work 2-for-1 (80 hours per week).
Re: (Score:2)
Luckily, H1-B programmers are time travellers, and have the required years of experience.
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Yeah was going to say, I bet they already have the under-market-cost candidate lined up for this.
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Quickly Amerdeep, refactor your resume!! 12 yrs experience Kubernites!
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But most Americans don't know what "refactor" means. Something that 12 years of public education has failed to teach.
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Yup since H1Bs work twice as hard each year of H1B experience is worth 2 years of normal experience.
But seriously (Score:4, Insightful)
The Hiring manager probably said 12 years of experience and experience with Kubernetes. HR changed it to 12 years of experience with Kubernetes.
Nothign New (Score:5, Insightful)
I've seen fucking bullshit like this for 20 years
Re: (Score:1)
I've seen bullshit like this since before there was any bullshit like this.
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> I've seen fucking bullshit like this for 20 years
Thank you for your application but the position we're trying to fill requires 200 years experience in seeing computer related bullshit.
Re:Nothign New (Score:4, Funny)
I posted on Slashdot about this practice way back in 1980
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12 years is a big number though, even if the tech in question were older than that.
My general impression is that after 6 years' experience, more isn't preferred, and after 10 or 12, it's more like, maybe there's something wrong with this guy for not being more dynamic.
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yup. Specifically i remember during dot-com boom and its aftermath ~1999-2002 when people were asking for "10 years of java experience" with 5 years of JSP/Servlet/EJB ...
Re: (Score:3)
That reminds me of the definition of a man-year in IBM:
730 persons trying to end a project before lunch.
Re:simple (Score:5, Interesting)
This is just bog-standard HR translation of the actual job requirements as written by the hiring manager. This happens everywhere and is not restricted to IBM. The hiring manager speaks and is translated: "We'd like some experience dealing with space systems (10+ years as an astronaut), some moderate lifting may be required (Olympic medal winner is a plus), but we can teach them what they need to know (Must be a self starter!)."
I've had an occasion where I read a job posting for our team, taken it to the boss and asked "Is this really what we want?" He then reads it, says Dammit!, and heads up to talk to HR.
Re:simple (Score:4, Interesting)
My personal favorite was when we tried to get another microwave designer (copy of me essentially). We got no useful inquiries after a few weeks so I asked where it was posted. "Microwaves widgets magazine" or some such was the answer. Being in the field I had not heard of the particular publication, but eventually found their website and still could not find our posting.
My efforts to intervene by pointing out the job boards I was (very) familiar with at the time got a "leave it to the professionals" response. Apparently HR didn't want to pay to post on the more popular job boards. Eventually they hired some manager's burnt out buddy who mostly bombed his interview, but had little competition. I was not there much longer.
Re: (Score:1)
Back in 2018, I saw a job listing for 10+ years of Go lang. It was first conceived in google at 2007.
I saw another job listing where, if you added all the language experience together, it came out to like 34 years. And I mean languages that are competitive to each other. Like C++ AND java AND python.
Though, after asking, I found out that it's not all the hiring manager's fault for these. Some of these are literally from the manager of the team in question...
And let's not forget that half the time,
Resume Dog Years (Score:1)
nuf sed