Given how many MAGA "influencers" turned out to be on the Russian payroll, and now that Xwitter shows where an account comes from, and we find thousands of MAGA influencers are not even posting from the US, the EU should take this problem seriously. Propaganda has been baked into both the Russian & Chinese systems for a century, and they are good at posing as something they're not.

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/05/nx-s1-5100829/russia-election-influencers-youtube

https://www.theregister.com/2024/11/25/google_beijing_propaganda/

https://www.theregister.com/2024/09/05/biden_cracks_down_on_putins/

And you really think that the UK, EU and US don't use propaganda just as manipulatively?

Certainly not as effectively, nor on such a scale as Russia & China. There's a reason neither Russia nor China even gives lip service to the idea of a free & independent press. They both explicitly require their domestic press to tow the official government line, specifically because they fear their own populations, should they be exposed to independent investigative thought. For example, Russian Federal Law No. 32-FZ and Federal Law No. 31-FZ, enacted on March 4, 2022, criminalize the spread of information that deviates from the official government narrative of the conflict in Ukraine. The official term mandated by the government for the conflict is a "special military operation". Calling the military action a "war" or "invasion" is considered by Russian authorities to be "false information" and is punishable by large fines or imprisonment.

Independent thought in Russia & China is forbidden.

Toe ;)

Don't be a damp squid ;)

The official term mandated by the government for the conflict is a "special military operation". Calling the military action a "war" or "invasion" is considered by Russian authorities to be "false information" and is punishable by large fines or imprisonment.

That's because an SMO is what it is, legally and constitutionally in Russian law. They specify SMO, ATO and war, and the resources Russia can use in each situation. So there's 'misinformation' like Russian conscripts being used in meatwave attacks, yet conscripts shouldn't be used outside Russian borders, except when war has been declared.. Which no current party to the conflict has yet done, with the exception of Baerback once declaring Germany was at war with Russia, but that was quickly walked back.

But 'invasion' should be 'full-scale military invasion', or your social credit score might be impacted. Which is also a propaganda/misinformation statement, because the initial invasion was only 2-300k troops, which was a show of power and only a small fraction of the forces Russia could have used, if it really wanted to do a 'full-scale' invasion. It currently has 800k+ troops in Ukraine, or former Ukrainian territory, so somehow went from 'full-scale' to.. even fuller scale?

But we also interfere in other countries elections or democracies, eg Romania, Moldova or Georgia, to name but a few. We also use crude propaganda or misinformation to attack our enemies. Like the way Putin actually died years ago because we were told he sufferered from multiple terminal illnesses. Or in non-war propaganda and misinformation, banning any discussion of Wuhan lab leaks.

So our 'leaders' are mostly using disinformation as an excuse to increase censorship and stifle debate. Yes, there is propaganda and misinformation, but it's been that way for centuries, and is how the great game gets played. Sure, AI and bots make it easier to spread, but the biggest problem (and solution) is empowering people to detect misinformation for themselves.. Which is a problem that requires education and developing people's critical thinking skills, which are sadly lacking in many. And being cynical, politicians might not want people questioning their supposed authority.

"legally and constitutionally in Russian law"

Just because Russia has legally and constitutionally codified absurd nonsense, it still doesn't mean it's not absurd nonsense.

Well, yes. Western countries aren't saints, but there are obvious differences. For example, you can post what you just posted, and the worst reprisal you're going to get is downvotes. Try denouncing manipulations in Russia or China, I believe the difference will become very obvious, very quickly.

Agreed, although you didn't take it to the logical conclusion that Trump is a Russian asset. Whether or not he knows it; we know that Trump listens to suggestions from anyone willing to shower him with gifts and approving words. Putin could just be exploiting Trump's narcissism, greed and natural stupidity rather than Trump intentionally betraying his country for money.

> Trump's narcissism, greed and natural stupidity

When did Donald J. Trump get a monopoly on these? Am I missing something here?

I don't think anyone suggested he had a monopoly? He certainly gives the appearance of having more than his fair share on occasions though.

Cue Beast , Voice of "Truth" and others in....3....2....1...

Real patriots don't challenge what they are told to say. You are as bad as those you accuse.

You have a lack of critical thinking. That is your problem not mine.

Strictly Dis-information wars, or using an older term propaganda wars have been going on for many years.

The sheer weight of social media posts by bots and government sponsored dis-informants is absolutely staggering.

When a government sponsors mass blitzes of the social media it becomes difficult to tell truth from lies and influences the attitudes of less well informed or gullible people.

Information Wars: How We Lost the Global Battle Against Disinformation and What We Can Do About It

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Information-Wars-Global-Against-Disinformation/dp/1611856388

The "right time" was at least twenty years ago. WTF are our "secret services" for?

USA covered above but Israel has it down to a fine art called [1]Hasbara which tries to convince the world that the Palestinians should be blamed for the war whereas the opposite is true going back [2]1948 . There is a [3]long history .

Some of the worst [4]happens inside Israel .

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasbara

[2] https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/

[3] https://imeu.org/article/fact-sheet-israels-history-of-spreading-disinformation

[4] https://www.972mag.com/israeli-media-pact-of-silence-gaza/

I wonder if anyone suggested being more honest and actually listening to your populations? I doubt it. I expect the suggestions will be to become more restrictive.

I wonder if anyone suggested being more honest and actually listening to your populations?

That's crazy talk. M&MS were in London recently for some group therapy. Macron's around 10% approval in French opinion polls, Merz just dropped to 25%, or the lowest of any German Chancellor ever. And then there's Starmer, possibly also the most unpopular PM in history. But we''ve given them the power, and they're not afraid to abuse it.

Who's populations? When X started showing the location of leading MAGA posters it turned out they weren't part of the US population but just posters in the third world who were engagement farming and troll farms in "Eastern Europe (non-EU)" - Belarus and Russia. MAGA shrank to half its size overnight.

@AC

"Who's populations?"

It is interesting I can make a general point applicable to most politicians and you had to focus on just one little political group. Is MAGA in the room with you right now?

We = good. Them = bad.

Britain conducts an illegal invasion, fuelled by Blair's lies = OK. Britain's supposed enemy fights back = they are terrorists.

It makes me laugh. France talks about conscription to fight Russia. A history lesson - France invaded Russia, not the other way round.

Germany talks about rearming. A history lesson - Germany invaded Russia and murdered 20 million Russians.

Russia has legitimate fears of the so-called peaceful West. Cooper is just the latest in a long line of idiots who do their best to exacerbate them.

So called fighting propaganda will equate to an avalanche of new propaganda to lead us toward war. I would start by conscripting Yvette Cooper. She wants a war with Russia, let her lead from the front.

There's an easy-to-find list of [1]invasions led or supported by the Russian Federation . The history lesson says that from 1991 to now there have been 7 victories, 1 armistice, 2 defeats, and there are 4 ongoing wars. It is worth noting that when Russia stopped with Chechnya they started with Georgia. When they stopped with Georgia they started with the North Caucasus. When they stopped with North Caucasus they started with Ukraine and Syria. It's almost like Russia doesn't know any way of life that doesn't involve war.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia#Russian_Federation_(1991%E2%80%93present)

Now do the same with the US and NATO.

Whenever " In a wide-ranging speech due later this afternoon, Yvette Cooper will remind senior diplomats and European dignitaries of the methods that "malign foreign states" are using to undermine trust in domestic powers. " is unfortunately really all that the UK, its Parliamentary government system and their attending intelligence services can offer, .... and any evidence to the contrary is too oft all too apparently missing and never to be made available .... it doesn't take one to be an Einstein to imagine the danger and damage that can be wrought by spooky forces at a distance without any valid fear of discovery or accountability both in competition with and/or laudably opposed to all manner of inevitably incriminating and reliably unfolding streams of self-defeating information/misinformation/disinformation.

10+ years ago..... But politicians think they know best and many still talk of "computer wizzkids" and think computers can't do any real harm.

So until it threatens them they just look the other way and revel in the numerous "good days to bury bad news"