MX Linux 25 loses systemd toggling power as Debian 13 looms
- Reference: 1754478966
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2025/08/06/debian_13_mx_25/
- Source link:
Debian 13 "Trixie" is [1]scheduled for launch on August 9. Trixie will have the [2]latest LTS release of the kernel, version 6.12, and will offer [3]KDE Plasma 6.3.5 and [4]GNOME 48 .
After Debian 13 ships, various downstream Debian-based distros will follow with their own version updates. One of these is MX Linux, which is one of the most popular among the smaller and lesser-known distros. The team released [5]MX Linux 23 back in August 2023, and the latest point release, [6]MX Linux 23.6 , back in April.
[7]
The developers have published a blog post, [8]Changes coming with MX 25 , which details some of the things users can expect from the forthcoming release, and the news isn't all good.
[9]
[10]
One thing we could see coming [11]even two years ago was that Debian will not offer a separate x86-32 edition of Trixie, and that means it's also the end of the line for the 32-bit editions of MX Linux. MX Linux 23 will still get security updates from upstream Debian until June 2028, so this isn't a hard cut-off like the one [12]Windows 10 faces when Microsoft turns updates off in October. The blog post says: "antiX currently plans to continue providing an official 32 bit ISO," so there may be some room for change on that front.
The first section of the blog post is entitled "systemd/sysVinit," and that's where we find the most worrying news. In its current form, one of the distinctive features of MX Linux is that it offers the ability to enable or disable systemd at will. This enables some convenient choices: for instance, you can enable systemd, install some package that requires it, and then disable it again.
[13]NetBSD 11 prepares for launch with 57 supported platforms
[14]Project Banana ripens into a pre-alpha for KDE Linux, and you can test it
[15]Gadget geeks aghast at guru's geriatric GPU
[16]Canonical dusts off TPM encryption for Ubuntu 25.10
Not in version 25, though. Apparently, MX's init-switching abilities are thanks to an upstream project called [17]systemd-shim by [18]Kevin Nelson . This builds on a [19]modified version of systemd derived from an [20]earlier systemd-shim project . Nelson's version now has a prominent warning:
NOTE: This project was broken by a change in the 6.12 kernel that turns off cgroup v1 support by default. Therefore, this project is effectively retired.
We found additional reports of issues with cgroups v1 support in kernel 6.12 [21]affecting OpenJDK 21 and [22]Docker on Arm Arch Linux among other places, indicating this is a more widespread issue.
As a result, MX Linux 25 users will have to choose which init system they want. The project plans to offer separate ISOs, with systemd as the default "for maximum compatibility with the Debian ecosystem." The KDE edition will only offer systemd and Wayland. There will be separate downloads of the Xfce and Fluxbox editions available with sysVinit. As the blog post puts it: "You still have a choice, you just have to make it at download rather than boot time."
[23]
As long as you stick to the upstream Debian kernel, it will support Secure Boot – although some additional drivers won't load without manual intervention in Secure Boot mode.
In our view, this is a very unfortunate change, and we rather fear that this might reduce the appeal of MX Linux for some users. We would have preferred to see KDE Plasma replaced by the Trinity Desktop – experimental ports [24]have already [25]existed – or some other lighter-weight alternative. ®
Get our [26]Tech Resources
[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2025/07/msg00003.html
[2] https://www.theregister.com/2024/12/11/linux_612_lts/
[3] https://wiki.debian.org/PkgQtKde/TrixieReleasePlans
[4] https://wiki.debian.org/Gnome/TrixieUpdates
[5] https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/03/mx_linux_23/
[6] https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/mx_linux_236/
[7] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2aJN8CBQsUo37S8glt1u-QQAAAMI&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[8] https://mxlinux.org/blog/changes-coming-with-mx-25/
[9] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44aJN8CBQsUo37S8glt1u-QQAAAMI&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[10] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33aJN8CBQsUo37S8glt1u-QQAAAMI&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[11] https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/19/debian_to_drop_x86_32/
[12] https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/04/windows_11_market_share/
[13] https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/05/netbsd_11_is_near/
[14] https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/04/kde_linux_prealpha/
[15] https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/01/geeks_aghast_at_guru_gpu/
[16] https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/31/ubuntu_tpm_fde/
[17] https://github.com/knelsonmeister/systemd-shim
[18] https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinlnelson/
[19] https://github.com/knelsonmeister/systemd
[20] https://github.com/desrt/systemd-shim
[21] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1108294
[22] https://archlinuxarm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=17131
[23] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44aJN8CBQsUo37S8glt1u-QQAAAMI&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[24] https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/MX_Linux_Trinity_Repository_Installation_Instructions
[25] https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php?p=818105
[26] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Re: A regrettable KDE choice
The MX blog post says:
> The KDE iso will default to wayland sessions. X11 sessions are also included.
You can choose X11 if you prefer, yes.
Re: A regrettable KDE choice
For now.
It definitely reduces the appeal ...
to this user. In fact my main reason for using MX Linux on some of my machines is the choice/absence of Systemd.
Whatever we think about the practicalities/usefulness of the Systemd ecosystem, the sad and unwelcome fact remains that it is effectively highjacking 'Linux' as a productive software stack, and making everything else above and below, subject to its blobby obscurantist whims. It may suit Redhat and some other corporate entities, but it defeats one of the prime virtues that 'Linux' has tended to uphold: being accessible and malleable to anyone's needs—academic, scientific, commercial, domestic, etc.
Inch by bleeding inch, we're seeing that virtue marginalised.
Of course, there are, and will be alternatives to fill the vacuum if Linux does become just another software blob, but that takes time, and it's always a shame to have to reinvent the wheel, especially when there was already a perfectly good wheel available, until someone decided everyone should have a wheel with corners.
Re: It definitely reduces the appeal ...
A wheel with square corners?
You are Hengist Pod and I claim the £20
Re: It definitely reduces the appeal ...
A wheel with square corners?
Apple will sue!
Re: It definitely reduces the appeal ...
> until someone decided everyone should have a wheel with corners.
Quite. Unfortunately it's not even just cornered wheels, it seems like the whole bloody car is being bodged, er "reinvented", inch by inch, as you say.
I'll continue with Debian on some systems for now, as long as I can continue to _not_ use most of the systemD creeping features (resolved, timesyncd, homed, and so on). But there are already more systemd-related procs running than I'm entirely comfortable with.
It might be almost a meme at this point, but if systemD had stuck with being "just an init system" replacement, I'd likely find it less troubling. But all the tendrils into other parts of Linux seem infectious.
Unfortunate
Liam nailed it: big advantage of MXLinux is that it keeps compatibility with packages that, for whatever reason, insist on finding systemd. I guess once the shim isn't available, we will lose the ability to install those packages and that'll make MX a far poorer choice for many.
Had systemd stayed as just an init system, personally I'd have lived with it: easier or harder to configure than alternatives wouldn't have been that big of a deal because, once a system is configured for boot, it generally stays that way for ages. My issue is the scope creep of this damn thing into userland and, well, just about everywhere else means that it suddenly becomes a nightmare of dystopian proportions if something goes wrong - and the more things a lump of software interacts with then the greater the chances of something going wrong.
Given the way things are heading, one of the BSD's might well take the mantle of being THE stable and robust OS of choice for the majority of uses.
Re: Unfortunate
> one of the BSD's might well take the mantle of being THE stable and robust OS of choice for the majority of uses.
One, or two. :-)
I've always liked the BSD's, and have been using them for years. But it's fair to say systemD viral spread has increased my use and interest.
Moreso FreeBSD in recent history since most of my lab is amd64. But I have some newer ARM and older PC's which gave me an excuse to revisit NetBSD after giving away the last of my SPARC systems years ago (and now I miss them, of course ;-) ). The return experience has been like rediscovering a nice comfortable blanket that makes you wonder why you ever put it away in the closet.
How does Devuan plus Flatpak work well?
So you’d have to install systemd apps through something like distrobox?
A regrettable KDE choice
I am a long-time KDE user, and i almost always have at least one konsole window running with multiple tabs. This layout can persist from one login to another when KDE is running on X. However, when I tried to switch to Wayland I found that something about it didn't support this feature. Konsole is actually a major part of my workflow so this inability made Wayland a non-starter for me at the time. If that's still true, and MX Linux will now only support KDE on Wayland, then my interest in it goes way down.
Can MX be installed with X (and maybe Xfce), and then add KDE/Plasma afterwards? That should work but it's a shame to have to find a work-around for a choice the developers have made.
(If I'm worng or out of date about konsole and Wayland I'd love to know that.)