Scientists spot massive black hole collision that defies current theories
- Reference: 1752561191
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2025/07/15/ligo_largest_black_hole_collision/
- Source link:
Astroboffins spotted the aftereffects of the event on November 23, 2023, when they detected emissions from two huge black holes, each around 100 and 140 times the mass of the Sun, that collided and merged into a massive object around 225 times the mass of our home star.
It presents a real challenge to our understanding of black hole formation
Scientists believe both black holes were spinning at immense speeds and after merging formed a body that current theories don’t predict.
Einstein predicted black hole collisions over a century ago but it was only [1]in 2016 that the two Laser Interferometer Gravitational-wave Observatory (LIGO) instruments in the US picked up the first waves from such an event.
Italy has since developed its own gravitational wave detector (Virgo) and Japan added the Kamioka Gravitational Wave Detector (KAGRA). The trio now work together as the “LVK Collaboration” and together spotted this extraordinary cosmic event.
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"This is the most massive black hole binary we’ve observed through gravitational waves, and it presents a real challenge to our understanding of black hole formation," [3]said Professor Mark Hannam, from Cardiff University and a member of the LIGO Scientific Collaboration.
[4]
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"Black holes this massive are forbidden through standard stellar evolution models. One possibility is that the two black holes in this binary formed through earlier mergers of smaller black holes."
[6]Astronomers say they've seen the largest explosion yet – and we just had to talk to them
[7]Beams from brightest gamma ray burst ever seen were pointed directly at Earth
[8]Astroboffins tune into the wild origins of fast radio bursts
[9]Is NASA's science budget heading for a black hole?
It's thought that one or both black holes observed in 2023 formed after previous mergers with smaller black holes.
Scientists theorize a single black hole can’t exceed 100 solar masses. However, should such objects merge with other black holes they can grow larger, and this latest data shows an intermediate stage at which - it's theorized - two larger objects formed to become a single body.
The gravitational wave signal detected by the LVK crew lasted just a tenth of a second, and was around twenty times more powerful than most previously observed gravitational wave signals. Detectors on Earth have picked up a couple of hundred signals indicating black hole mergers but this one was off the charts.
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The immense rotational speed of the two black holes – which spin around 400,000 times faster than Earth - probably account for the strength of the gravitational wave pulse.
"It will take years for the community to fully unravel this intricate signal pattern and all its implications," said Gregorio Carullo of the University of Birmingham and a member of the LVK. "Despite the most likely explanation remaining a black hole merger, more complex scenarios could be the key to deciphering its unexpected features. Exciting times ahead!" ®
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[1] https://www.theregister.com/2016/02/09/ligo_gravitational_wave_results/
[2] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2aHYmtOfv4Vt4M14MboN-TwAAAFY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[3] https://www.caltech.edu/about/news/ligo-detects-most-massive-black-hole-merger-to-date
[4] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44aHYmtOfv4Vt4M14MboN-TwAAAFY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[5] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33aHYmtOfv4Vt4M14MboN-TwAAAFY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[6] https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/13/astroboffins_have_witnessed_the_largest/
[7] https://www.theregister.com/2023/06/12/gamma-ray-burst/
[8] https://www.theregister.com/2024/11/07/fast_radio_burst_research/
[9] https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/11/nasa_science_budget_comment/
[10] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44aHYmtOfv4Vt4M14MboN-TwAAAFY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[11] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Hence the collision of Musk & Trump could become supernova like. Assuming the falling out is real and not a diversion.
Please note that a collision on that scale will release a massive radiation pulse.
Hmm, that appears to be the Bright Side of the story.
Oooo, I see what you did there.
Wondering
I think they're saying blackholes bigger than 100x the sun can't form from supernova, because there are plenty big ones around and thought to occupy the centre of many if not all galaxies. Why were these spinning so fast, is it just conservation of momentum? What happens when 2 rapidly spinning objects merge? Unless they conveniently merge along the same axis, spinning similarly, one imagines it will be very violent.
Re: Wondering
Well, if it all happens inside the event horizon, it can't affect us, right?
(meanwhile) Waiter, I ordered potatoes and you've brought me spaghettiiiiiiii...
Re: Wondering
It's been a lonnng time since I read up on this stuff, so I've probably forgotten most of it.
But I think the Supermassive Black Holes at the centre of Galaxies, are believed to have a different origin than "Stellar" Black Holes (those formed from Supernovas). My memory says there were two theories, one was simply they formed closer in time to the Big Bang and so were able to gobble far more in that condensed space than would be possible nowadays, and the other was something to do with early Dark Matter, which frankly I cant remember.
You are right the 100x limit is believed to be the biggest you could get from a single Supernova. I guess if you add them together you should be able to get above 100x, but I think there was something about inherent stability, which they thought would cause the newly formed Black Hole to shed mass.
Gahh now I'm going to have to go back and try and find all those old notes from Uni... Although they are probably massively out of date by now... :P
Re: Wondering
Some mass is lost during the collision (as the gravitational waves) but the only other known mechanism for a black hole to lose mass is Hawking radiation, however stellar mass black holes will take many orders of magnitude longer than the current age of the universe to evaporate by that mechanism, and only after there's no matter left to swallow.
Re: Wondering
Angular momentum is related to the moment of inertia which, for a sphere is (2/5)mr². Assuming the singularity at the centre is both spherical and has a non-zero but vanishingly (literally!) small radius, the angular momentum may not be as large as you may imagine.
That said, it's a situation where a small change of n in the x 10^n part of r is likely to make a colossal difference given the size of m
Intriguing questions....
Re: Wondering
Nearly all observed black holes are either <100 Solar masses and are called Stellar black holes, or >100,000 Solar masses (with some in the range if billions of solar masses) and called Super massive black holes. So there must be two different ways of black holes forming. The small ones are from supernovas, what made super massive blacks holes in unknown.
"Black holes this massive are forbidden"
Black holes this massive don't care about your puny theories.
400,000 times faster than Earth
That's 277.6 RPM then. Not too impressive until you consider the vast amount of matter rotating at that speed.
First confirmed intermediate?
So does this mean that intermediate-mass black holes are no longer theoretical? Or are they extending the range classed as Stellar-mass black holes? Up to now, I believe the intermediate-mass range of 100 to 100,000 stellar masses had a few candidates, but no confirmed members, so this would seem to be the first confirmed member of that class, unless there's some nuance I'm missing.
Re: First confirmed intermediate?
This is not the first confirmed detection above 100 solar masses. The reason this event is in the news is that it's the largest remnant so far detected, and is very close to the theoretical detection limit of our current detectors.
There have been three previous detections in the ~140 solar mass range and one of ~170, in 2019 and 2020, although the range of mass uncertainty is quite wide for some of them.
Back of a serviette calculation...
... the energy released is about 0.1% of what is currently being pumped into "AI"? Somebody check my maths!
Forbidden
When a black hole forms, it will be < 100 SM. Mass loss from within any event horizon is by definition not possible ( pace a very slow leak of Hawking radiation). Ergo a colliding pair in the 50 - 100 SM range will result in in one of 100 - 200 SM range. We keep observing collisions. Nothing forbidden about any of that. Accompanying gubbins from the comparatively modest accretion discs and EM fields may be lost, but it is loss of the main mass within that is forbidden.
Re: Forbidden
The energy in the gravitational waves that we detect has to come from somewhere, so the system must lose mass during the event.
Although ~15 solar masses being radiated away as gravitational waves is mind-bending stuff.
Nah
It’s just Trump’s ego colliding with the reality distortion field.