As US scientists flee Trump, MP urges Britain to do more to nab them
- Reference: 1746787270
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2025/05/09/uk_draws_us_scientists/
- Source link:
The chair of UK Parliamentary's Science, Innovation and Technology Committee has written a letter to the Minister for Science Lord Patrick Vallance, asking for more effort to lure boffins fleeing the land of the not-so-free-anymore.
"Some universities in Europe have already begun to actively recruit researchers from the US, and countries such as Netherlands and Australia have set up funds to recruit top foreign scientists. The latter is inviting contributions from funders to support a 'national, coordinated effort' to provide a competitive relocation package for scientists leaving the US," wrote Chinyelu "Chi" Onwurah, the Member of Parliament for Newcastle-upon-Tyne Central and West.
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The EU recently launched a [2]€500 million ($566 million) plan to pull in scientists from abroad, with France [3]pledging another €100 million ($113 million) to help, she noted.
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It's like a reversal of the Brain Drain that Britain suffered from the 1960s onwards, where talented and highly educated UK nationals headed west in search of higher pay and better prospects in America.
Britain is understood to be aiming to attract ten specific classes of researchers, but the relevant scheme is likely to get £50 million ($67 million) in funding.
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Onwurah called for the government to go further and deliver targeted support for scientists seeking to leave the US, specifically, considering options such as relaxing visa requirements.
In my conversations with US academics, they have emphasized that they would value expressions of support from the UK
"In my conversations with US academics, they have emphasized that they would value expressions of support from the UK," she claimed.
The Science, Innovation and Technology Committee previously questioned Lord Vallance on this issue, with Emily Darlington, MP for Milton Keynes Central, noting the "hollowing out" of funding for the National Institutes of Health (NIH) in the US, and hostile attitudes to vaccines and stem cell research.
She asked whether this presented an opportunity for the UK to step forward in areas that the US's new administration is not comfortable with funding, and pondered if the UK should be looking at additional incentives to entice scientists in those areas.
"If you look at the history of science in the UK, we have always relied on immigration of top talent," Lord Vallance replied. "We will continue to do so and, therefore, all our systems must be geared to do that. The question of how we get the visa system right is important." He also claimed that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had expressed a willingness to "push the visa system to be welcoming to scientists and engineers."
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However, UK visa costs may be as much as 17 times higher than those in comparable countries, according to Onwurah. For non-EU students wanting to do their postdoctoral research, that's £524 ($694) just to apply for the visa plus the health surcharge (£1,552 or $1,745 for a 2-year visa, for example). For qualified scientists coming in on a [8]"Global Talent" visa to work in research or pursue academic careers, it's £766 (c $1,017) for the visa plus a mandatory health surcharge of £1,035 ($1,375) per year.
Germany, by contrast, only charges third-country nationals a €90 ($101) visa fee if they hold a doctoral degree and plan to do postdoc research in Germany. France's [9]researcher talent visa costs €225 ($253) for four years – although both EU countries require the applicant to take out private health insurance.
UK back in funding clover after rejoining flagship Euro science research program Horizon
The UK this week revealed it had secured [10]£500 million in research grants from the EU's Horizon Europe programme — having returned to the program following a three-year pause after Brexit.
Sir John Aston, the pro-vice-chancellor for research at the University of Cambridge, told [11]The Guardian he hoped the embargo "never happens again," telling reporters: "It is really good that we are back inside the tent."
However visa fees aren't the only barrier; academic salaries in the US are also more generous than in the UK. The average salary for university staff is said to be about £40k ($53k) for a lecturer, rising to about £91k ($121k) for a professor, while full professors average about $155k in the US.
Then there is the thought of swapping Malibu beach or Miami for "bracing" Skegness when you head off for a holiday ... sorry, vacation in Blighty.
[12]EU tells US scientists to dump Trump for a lab in Europe
[13]France offers US scientists a safe haven from Trump's war on woke
[14]White House budget proposal could beam NASA science back decades
[15]National Science Foundation staff axed by Trump fear for US scientific future
On the plus side, Americans and Brits speak dialects of English that are almost mutually comprehensible, so there is that.
If US scientists are looking for positions overseas, then there is clearly an opportunity here for the UK's world-leading science sector
"If US scientists are looking for positions overseas, then there is clearly an opportunity here for the UK's world-leading science sector. We can provide a sanctuary where researchers can continue to innovate and produce, standing up for the universal values of science and knowledge, whilst also filling critical skills gaps. It would be a win-win," Onwurah said in a statement.
We asked the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology (DSIT) if it could provide any further information on what was planned to help American scientists make a move to Britain.
Vallance had previously explained that we do not know what is going to play out in the US, and the government would see how the situation evolves.
"What I will say is that scientists, great scientists, are welcome in the UK. We will welcome people to positions in universities and elsewhere, and our funding schemes will support people," he stated.
The letter from the Committee chair asks for Lord Vallance to respond by May 23.
"I look forward to the Science Minister providing clarity on what the government is doing to show our support to US scientists and attract them to the UK. This could be a great opportunity to bolster our scientific capabilities, and I hope the government acts accordingly," Onwurah said. ®
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[2] https://www.theregister.com/2025/05/06/eu_us_science_scheme/
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[8] https://www.gov.uk/global-talent-researcher-academic
[9] https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F16922
[10] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2025/may/05/british-scientists-eu-horizon-research-funding-programme
[11] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2025/may/05/british-scientists-eu-horizon-research-funding-programme
[12] https://www.theregister.com/2025/05/06/eu_us_science_scheme/
[13] https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/14/france_us_science_offer/
[14] https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/14/nasa_science_budget/
[15] https://www.theregister.com/2025/02/21/nsf_staff_cut/
[16] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Hmm
As long as we are not importing the DEI rejects we could benefit from more skilled people teaching the next generations.
Re: DEI
You are actually trying to make the UK stupid like America, I see. Bigotry is well known to increase stupidity.
Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot/feet like your adored exampy does.
A loss for the Brits, but they will be welcome on the continent.
Re: DEI
Codejunky is a long-established commenter at El Reg who has always been right-leaning and a fan of the pseudo-libertarian American right.
In recent years, as with many of their type, they've gone all-in on the Trumpian/Culture war Kool-Aid and talking points.
Oddly, despite being anti-EU, they've lived in another EU country in the past IIRC, yet they've shown no indication of having actually lived in the US they're so obsessed with, or of even wanting or planning to do so.
Maybe they tried but didn't manage to get in?
Re: Hmm
Good right wing moron. Have a cookie
Re: Hmm
Fuck off Junky.
Re: Hmm
Would you care to expand on what it means to be a "DEI reject"? Are these similar to DUI rejects?
Re: Hmm
> DUI rejects
They get to be Secretary of Defense...
Re: Hmm
Looks like I upset the DEI tutors or maybe their students. Or former workers from US DEI programs
Re: Hmm
Do try to at least appear to be intelligent and not the moronic right wing poster you are.
Re: Hmm
Yep, I'm entirely sure that disgruntled DEI strawmen are why this post and the vast bulk of your ramblings continue to be consistently downvoted by a large majority.
It's not just that you're just a tedious parroter of right-wing US culture war talking points that most here see through for the shite they are, is it?
Re: Hmm
@AC
"the vast bulk of your ramblings continue to be consistently downvoted by a large majority."
Amusingly I can get 5 downvotes just from saying I can post nothing and be downvoted- https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2025/04/07/llama_4_debuts/#c_5050929
Just occasionally it is amusing to troll back the trolls who follow me. Both the cowards and the few who dare name themselves.
Re: Hmm
I downvote you just for not using embedded links. Here, have another.
Re: Hmm
The fact that, currently, your two comments above each have 2 upvotes versus 20 and 28 downvotes respectively suggests that you have an inordinately large number of troll followers yet curiously few "ordinary" people willing to upvote you despite plenty of adjacent commenters having far more.
Or more likely, everyone here just thinks you're talking rubbish?
Re: Hmm
@AC
"The fact that, currently, your two comments above each have 2 upvotes versus 20 and 28 downvotes"..."Or more likely, everyone here just thinks you're talking rubbish?"
So you are saying my 2 trolling comments to upset the usual suspects (and of course got responses from my trolls) got a lot of downvotes!!! No way!!!
Can you type and breathe at the same time or would that leave one less coward?
Re: Hmm
"Or more likely, everyone here just thinks you're talking rubbish?"
How dare you suggest people think that Madam Codejunky posts are just recycled opinion and guff draped in bad grammar and simplistic angry culture warrior beliefs.
If that were the case then their posts would be thoroughly and consistently downvoted ....
....ah ...
... oh dear.
Re: Hmm
chickenchokingmoneky says what?
Wank it harder and hopefully it will fall off.
Re: Hmm
@ecofeco
"chickenchokingmoneky says what?"
If your chicken is choking the monkey I would suggest it aint a chicken. If your monkey is choking the chicken I suggest your viewing habits are influencing your pets.
"Wank it harder and hopefully it will fall off."
I am guessing your parents told you that because you wouldnt wear the sandpaper gloves they made for you. Good news for you- it wont fall off and you wont go blind.
Re: Hmm
Madam, refrain from using such crass innuendo. People expect you to post intellectual garbage, or grammatical nonsense. But not profanity or vulgar garbage.
Americans and Brits speak dialects of English that are almost mutually comprehensible
"Two countries separated by a common language" is, I think, the quote you are looking for!
Re: Americans and Brits speak dialects of English that are almost mutually comprehensible
The US academics in the sciences that I have encountered usually on sabbatical in AU spoke and understood the Queen's English better than I daresay our late monarch.
Quite a few I suspect had spent part of their early careers in the UK and might well seriously consider relocating to blighty if the research and development resources were available to continue their work with salary not necessarily being the overarching consideration.
But this is the obvious flaw in this Baldrickine cunning plan of his lordship - funding for both Universities and research has atrophied over the previous decades to the point that in many areas they are facing extinction. The required facilities almost certainly just don't exist and the government and industry would have to pony up a great deal more the GBP50 million mentioned - even factor of ten or twenty more probably would not suffice.
Similar problems afflict AU (partly for the same reasons and partly being a much smaller nation) with most younger scientists forced to seek opportunities in the EU, UK and formerly the US. Many visiting US students and scientists I have met expressed a genuine desire to live and work in Oz for the climate, relaxed life style and the slightly fewer homicidal gun toting crazies.
The idea of Germany (ok the EU) hoovering up American "rocket scientists" as it were has a rather nice historical symmetry not that Germany would want von Braun returned.
But can UK universities afford them?
UK universities already cash-strapped.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/may/08/uk-universities-income-falls-for-third-consecutive-year
If they think the visa charges are bad just wait until they see the salaries. Or are we going to have a two tier salary situation where they get paid more than the British scientists?
I would say that they won't have to buy health insurance: But then remembered the current state of the NHS.
The salaries paid to highly qualified scientists in Britain are desperately poor.
A family member of mine is such a scientist with a PhD in chemistry, working at a government funded research institute in England. He's on a three year temporary contract, and isn't even earning enough to be able to rent his own flat. A few years ago, he told me that there had been no promotions, and no pay increases for 10 years. Additionally, of course, a recent Tory government cancelled their pension entitlements without compensation.
All that sends a clear message that science in the UK won't make you a comfortable living. The UK establishment clearly doesn't care about science. Not that it's necessarily any better in some EU countries.
" ($121k) for a professor, while full professors average about $155k in the US."
Even that comparison is misleading. Professor in the UK is head of dept or very senior staff. Professor in the USA is anyone with a permanent job. If the US stats include "associate professor" that's pretty much everyone.
A head of dept Prof in a major US school would be on $3-500k, or almost 10% of the football coach.
But they won't will they
It's not even a question so no need for punctuation in my title.
They won't step up. GB has hitched its peasant cart to Amerikka and the smart scientists won't even give it a glance.
UK governments have wrecked UK unis, so this is not an option.
The Brexit deal for unis saw them banned from bagging quality foreign students, especially Chinese, who may now have to stay at home and make China great again, rather than improving UK research. The resulting loss of income and caps on fees saw UK uni budgets undermined. UK unis are dropping courses, firing academics and selling assets to survive. Some will go under. Most will drop down the league tables, even the ones operated by UK entities, which they have always seemed to chart surprisingly well in.
Labour are running scared from activist-voter supported* Reform and will cheerfully isolate the UK from foreign talent to avoid attracting the ire of nationalists.
As for the STEM-is-everything-screw-everyone-else mentality of the Gradgrind UK government, STEM courses are expensive and are much more likely to be axed when the screens go red. Courses in the humanities and social sciences are simply cheaper. Ironically GAFA has been offloading STEM-qualified staff as if they were a disease for the last few years, believing their own propaganda - that they can be replaced by AI.
* Almost all Reform supporters vote in the UK (like MAGA supporters in the US). The mainstream parties don't have the ability to inspire large chunks of the electorate who may agree with their policies to actually get out and vote for them, after Brexit made everyone 25%+ poorer, grumpy and distrustful.
Re: UK governments have wrecked UK unis, so this is not an option.
@Tron
"The Brexit deal for unis saw them banned from bagging quality foreign students, especially Chinese, who may now have to stay at home and make China great again, rather than improving UK research."
Honest question but how has brexit blocked Chinese students? I suspect that isnt true as I know a few Asians who came to study (not chinese but neighbouring country) and their classes contained a lot of Asian (including Middle Eastern) students.
"The resulting loss of income and caps on fees saw UK uni budgets undermined."
I suspect the failure started when Blair wanted 50% of school leavers to go to uni without any method of funding it. Since then the 'no tuition fees' fell apart and now UK students pay part of the cost of education which student complain as too high. Foreign students paying the costs and bringing talent to the UK is a good thing.
"STEM courses are expensive and are much more likely to be axed when the screens go red."
I would hope not but you are probably right. In some other discussions people suggest the 'fries with that' degrees are worth having because they fund the STEM courses but all of it is backstopped by the taxpayer. I dont know if the UK even could compete with funding for STEM scientists but making the country attractive to them sounds like a good idea
Re: UK governments have wrecked UK unis, so this is not an option.
but making the country attractive to them sounds like a good idea
Agreed.
An immigration "hostile environment" and enabling/encouraging the right wing nutters to scream, "GO BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM!!!" in the streets are both good starts, yes?
Re: UK governments have wrecked UK unis, so this is not an option.
"If you look at the history of science in the UK, we have always relied on immigration of top talent," Lord Vallance replied.
Really? I seem to recall that many of the great "British" inventors [Including Alexander Graham Bell] were, in fact, Scottish. But it's a stretch to call them "immigrants".
I'm all for the UK being a place that attracts immigrants, though I don't think science is one of those attractions.
Major selling points
Days since last mass shooting:
USA: 0
UK: 350
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_Kingdom]
Guns per 100 people:
USA: 120.5
UK: 5.03
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country]
Re: Major selling points
"There's no connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone.... and you'd be a fool and a communist to make one."
William Melvin Hicks (1961–1994)
Get em while they’re still intelligent
Future batches may not be so capable.