EU OS drafts a locked-down Linux blueprint for Eurocrats
- Reference: 1742903113
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2025/03/25/eu_os_free_govt_desktop/
- Source link:
Rather than a new distro, it's a [1]website that documents planning such a thing, what functions the OS might need, how to deploy and manage it, and how to handle users. Its aims are relatively modest, saying:
In the scope is everything that is necessary to deploy a Linux-based operating system to an average public body with few hundreds of users.
The proposed base OS – Fedora – is what gave us pause, though. In these times of heightened tensions between the US and – well, frankly, everyone, including large parts of the US itself – why pick the Red Hat-backed Fedora, an American distro, rather than one of European origin such as openSUSE? To be fair, the immutable Fedora KDE version, Kinoite, is among the most mature immutable distros out there. The Register [2]first looked at it over four years ago now.
The project is the brainchild of [3]Dr Robert Riemann , whose day job is at the European Data Protection Supervisor (EDPS), which has [4]been around for a while . He seems to know his stuff. We're rather impressed by the level of detail of the website, considering that it's only just launched. It discusses [5]project goals , some [6]use cases , and an outline of [7]functional requirements .
Significantly, it also addresses some previous efforts at doing similar things. The Register has looked at some of the ones it mentions over the years, including Munich's long-running LiMux project, from the [8]early days of 2004 to its [9]replacement in 2017 . Our coverage of this also [10]mentioned the French Gendarmerie's GendBuntu , as well as the [11]Linux Plus 1 project in Schleswig-Holstein . We gather that [12]Astra Linux is doing well in Russia , too.
[13]CentOS Connect conference announces return of Firefox
[14]Both KDE and GNOME to offer official distros
[15]Fedora 41: A vast assortment, but there's something for everyone
[16]Why we're still waiting for Canonical's immutable Ubuntu Core Desktop
If it were us, we would have made some significantly different choices. We feel that KDE Plasma is overly complicated for a desktop environment that would need to be strictly locked down. Immutable Fedora is quite mature, but European alternatives do exist, notably the openSUSE-based [17]Kalpa Desktop .
More importantly, the concept of the rich local desktop OS is getting old and stale in this era of ransomware attacks. We feel that the FOSS world needs to build its own equivalent of ChromeOS – a simple, stripped-down stateless client desktop, with at least dual failover local partitions, which can talk over open protocols to sovereign cloud servers that organizations can host themselves. All the tools are there; it just needs someone to put the pieces together.
[18]
However, that is a whole other argument. The EU OS project is hosted on GitLab, and from the [19]source code we can see that it started on Christmas Day. For an effort that's only been in development for quarter of a year, it's plain that a lot of thought has gone into it. We really hope this grows into a significant and influential effort. ®
Bootnote
Before anyone writes in, yes, we are well aware that ChromiumOS exists, and it is open source. However, it's designed and built to [20]authenticate and synchronize only to Google's cloud . What we would like to see is something that could not only authenticate against open standards such as LDAP or OpenID, but also sync files over WebDAV or the like, as well as bookmarks, passwords, profile settings, and so on. At least for now, ChromiumOS doesn't qualify – and neither do ChromeOS Flex or FydeOS.
Get our [21]Tech Resources
[1] https://eu-os.gitlab.io/
[2] https://www.theregister.com/2021/02/18/kinoite_immutable_fedora/
[3] https://blog.riemann.cc/about/
[4] https://www.theregister.com/2012/06/11/smart_meter_privacy/
[5] https://eu-os.gitlab.io/goals
[6] https://eu-os.gitlab.io/use-cases
[7] https://eu-os.gitlab.io/spec
[8] https://www.theregister.com/2004/06/17/munich_embraces_penguin/
[9] https://www.theregister.com/2017/02/13/munich_may_dump_linux_for_windows/
[10] https://www.theregister.com/2018/01/04/munich_linux_costs_ownership/
[11] https://www.theregister.com/2024/04/04/germanys_northernmost_state_ditches_windows/
[12] https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/09/russian_debianderivative_vendor_plans_ipo/
[13] https://www.theregister.com/2025/02/10/centos_firefox/
[14] https://www.theregister.com/2024/11/29/kde_and_gnome_distros/
[15] https://www.theregister.com/2024/11/14/fedora_41_a_vast_assortment/
[16] https://www.theregister.com/2024/11/06/ubuntu_core_desktop_waiting/
[17] https://kalpadesktop.org/
[18] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2Z-LhL1N-Ll4x20Xy0hFWpQAAAcY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[19] https://gitlab.com/eu-os/eu-os.gitlab.io
[20] https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromiumos-design-docs/login/
[21] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
TBH I wasn't aware that Devuan is especially European.
On the list here -- https://www.devuan.org/os/team
I see...
» Franco "Nextime" Lanza (VUA) :: GPG key 0xDFEDF580D6132D50
https://www.nexlab.net/aboutme/
Italian?
» Denis "Jaromil" Roio (VUA) :: GPG key 0x73B35DA54ACB7D10
https://jaromil.dyne.org/
Italian?
» Daniel "Centurion" Reurich :: GPG key 0x27B9FAA4EBAA93A1
https://www.linkedin.com/in/centuriondan/
New Zealander?
Any more local info?
I am not disagreeing here, just saying I wasn't aware of any significant geographical base... but I have not looked.
Debian itself was started in the US although it is very international now.
From their page footer: "Devuan is a registered trademark of the Dyne.org foundation" and Dyne are based in Amsterdam.
Perfect for running the Laundy
We feel that the FOSS world needs to build its own equivalent of ChromeOS – a simple, stripped-down stateless client desktop, with at least dual failover local partitions, which can talk over open protocols to sovereign cloud servers that organizations can host themselves.
Agreed. And not being a software type, something that was interesting to read about in Charles Stross's Laundry Files where that concept was described as the Laundry's desktop environment of choice. Seemed like a really good idea. So is having a EUroOS, which as well as potential for better security, could save a large fortune in licence & admin costs. I agree with the comment that it would seem sensible to base it on a European distro though.
Re: Perfect for running the Laundy
The problem with stateless clients hosted on a cloud server is that it only takes one security incident to compromise the whole setup...
Re: Perfect for running the Laundy
Hold up.
There are 2 points here, and in one of them, you are conflating 2 different things.
Second first -- here:
> stateless clients
That's one thing.
> hosted on a cloud server
I did not say hosted on anything anywhere.
A "stateless client" means local software installed on a local machine's local storage... these days, on an SSD.
That machine is smart enough to get online, offer you enough UI to connect to a phone or a hotspot, enter Wifi credentials, handle portal screens, etc.
Then when you're online you can get at the organisation's data over encrypted connections, possibly unlocked with further authentication once you're in, biometrics, USB tokens, whatever.
The _software_ is local. The _data_ -- the files or whatever -- are not.
Secondly:
> one security incident to compromise the whole setup...
That is equally true of any credentials leak or whatever. One lost Windows laptop with a corporate Exchange account on it, say.
About that secure client (using a Linux OS)......
Quote: "...when you're online you can get at the organisation's data over encrypted connections...."
Sure....the client might be bulletproof....................
.......but, as we have seen over and over again centralised data is quite another kettle of fish!!!!
Maybe this whole article misses the point! Namely that there is a MUCH BIGGER PICTURE HERE than just "immutable Fedora" on the client!!!!
Misdirection in ElReg? Surely not!!
Re: About that secure client (using a Linux OS)......
Maybe this whole article misses the point! Namely that there is a MUCH BIGGER PICTURE HERE than just "immutable Fedora" on the client!!!!
Misdirection in ElReg? Surely not!!
I don't think it does, but OS choice is just one part of the swiss cheese model. Charles Stross's description of the Laundry's config got me looking (and asking) a bit deeper. Having an instanced session just seems like a really GoodThing(tm) because it limits what can be lost/compromised if data isn't on the device when the session ends. Can't remember which book it was in, but it was written years ago and commercial implemenations for this (non)trust model exist.
Sure, it's not perfect, assuming the EU decides to plonk all the data in AWS or MS's cloud, but if there's control over the OS and basic app suite, then it gets a whole lot easier to expand the service to a EUroCloud under European control. Then with the anticipated scale and potential for cost savings, seems like a project worth pursuing. Downside is maybe also needing a European supply chain that can make the servers. One of the biggest bits of smoke & mirrors around the 'cloud' is behind the hype, the 'cloud' is still a bunch of HPE or other servers, just hiding somewhere else and behind an innovative charging model.
Re: Perfect for running the Laundy
Well said. The best and most secure OS, driven by an idiot, is still insecure.
European staff I have met are well ahead of their American counterparts. There are many useful tools that do not have an equivalent on Linux thanks to roadblocks and patents held by business monopolies.
Re: Perfect for running the Laundy
so fork 9 front and finish webfs you'll get alot more than stateless clients but you can have those too
Re: Perfect for running the Laundy
My problem with the idea is that all-remote data often makes the data fragile. For example, let's say I need a bunch of credentials to access things because my employer hasn't got a full SSO setup. They want me to use random passwords and a password manager. Where are my passwords? Options:
1. On my computer: then it's not stateless, because at least some information is stored there.
2. On their servers, and I have to authenticate to get to it, which makes it easier to attack because the attacker does not need access to my computer.
There's a reason why many businesses prefer number 1. Having a dumbish terminal also leaves you with a dependency on the network. You might be in the admittedly large camp that always has network access or can't do much work without it anyway, though not everyone is, but one major problem even in that situation is that some things are sensitive to latency. There are tasks that aren't well handled by such a device.
RedHat is part of IBM
Nowadays, Fedora is part of IBM. As such a natural choice as no one got fired for choosing IBM (or so I was told). On the other hand, IBM is not the most stable company anymore and their commitment to RedHat is not unquestionable.
I think the choice was also guided by the fact that RedHat itself have a good track record.
I do understand the importance for a remote desktop like client server setup, like ChromeOS. Managing a few tens of thousand desktop PCs and laptops in any other way is "impractical".
Personally, I loathe Fedora. I have bricked half a dozen installations of Fedora during updates. Never understood what happened. I didn't fare much better with SuSE, though. Stuck with Debian/Ubuntu distros to my satisfaction.
Re: RedHat is part of IBM
Yeah, this idea of an EU OS is interesting wrt EU's computational Sovereignty, without foreign kill switches for example. Riemann may have chosen a Red Hat distro based partially on considerations of compatibility with [1]CERN , but really after the 'recent' [2]RHEL drama , wouldn't another distro be preferrable, like one that has worked on providing a still-open-source [3]alternative build , and also an [4]immutable version . Plus, EU OS should probably be enterprise-oriented rather than workstation-bells-and-whistles based ... so some sort of SUSE Linux Enterprise (SLE) might be the ticket.
If I understand correctly that would be a Finnish OS kernel, packaged in a German (formerly?) distro, owned by a Swedish investment firm (EQT Partners), with a German desktop (according to Dr. Syntax). Myabe the French would object? (... should Atos be involved?)
[1] https://linux.web.cern.ch/
[2] https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/20/kettle_linux_rhel/
[3] https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/12/suse_announces_rhel_fork/
[4] https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/17/opensuse_confirms_leap_16/
Re: RedHat is part of IBM
"a German desktop (according to Dr. Syntax)"
Not just according to me: "KDE is legally represented by KDE e.V. based in Germany, which also owns the KDE trademarks and funds the project." according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE which will also tell you it was founded by Matthias Ettrich when he was a student at Tübingen. For added Europeanness it uses the Qt framework from what was originally Trolltech which takes us back to Finland.
For a server they could also use Nextcloud from Nextcloud GmbH, i.e. based in Germany as is the Document Foundation, responsible for LibreOffice. I believe Collabora in Cambridge are major contributors to both of these but, of course FOSS development knows no boundaries.
Why even have a local disk?
PXE booting would remove the local SSD as a single point of failure, and disposing of old machines would be simpler if they didn't have to have their internal SSD removed lest an attacker use advanced data recovery techniques to retrieve saved data.
Re: Why even have a local disk?
Sun X terminals, no local storage, runs over the network. What goes around comes around.
Re: Why even have a local disk?
Sun X terminals, no local storage, runs over the network. What goes around comes around.
In the beginning, there was the mainframe, and sometimes RACF. Then the hype around peer-peer and dumb terminals became a lot more expensive and insecure. Then came 'thin clients'. Then 'cloud'. And lo, it seems we're slowly going back to the days of big iron, a more secure environment and lower cost terminals to access it all.
(It still boggles me that IBM fell so far behind in the 'cloud' wars when they'd been doing cloud computing for decades.)
Shirley...
A 'locked down' system would not use the cloud and would not connect to the public internet.
In so far as any FOSS product with a wide community of contributors can be said to have a nationality, surely KDE is German. And if we're looking for an underlying distro with an EU connection, why not Devuan?