OpenAI asks Uncle Sam to let it scrape everything, stop other countries complaining
- Reference: 1741889230
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2025/03/13/openai_data_copyright/
- Source link:
Writers sue Anthropic for feeding 'stolen' copyrighted work into Claude [1]READ MORE
The ChatGPT developer submitted an [2]open letter full of proposals to the White House Office of Science and Technology (OSTP) regarding the Trump administration's [3]AI Action Plan , currently under development.
It outlines the super-lab's views on how the White House can support the American AI industry. This includes putting in place a regulatory regime – but one that "ensures the freedom to innovate," of course; an export strategy to let America exert control over its allies while locking out enemies like China; and adopting measures to drive growth, including for federal agencies to "set an example" on adoption.
The suggestions regarding copyright display a certain amount of hubris. It talks up the "longstanding fair use doctrine" of American copyright law, and claims this is "even more critical to continued American leadership on AI in the wake of recent events in the PRC," presumably referring to the interest generated by China's [4]DeepSeek earlier this year.
America has so many AI startups because the fair use doctrine promotes AI development, OpenAI says, while "rigid copyright rules are repressing innovation and investment," in other markets, singling out the European Union for allowing "opt-outs" for rights holders.
[5]
The biz [6]previously claimed it would be "impossible" to build top-tier AI models that meet today's needs without using people's copyrighted work.
[7]
[8]
It proposes that the US government "take steps to ensure that our copyright system continues to support American AI leadership," and that it shapes international policy discussions around copyright and AI, "to prevent less innovative countries from imposing their legal regimes on American AI firms and slowing our rate of progress."
Not content with that, OpenAI wants the US government to actively assess the level of data available to American AI firms and "determine whether other countries are restricting American companies' access to data and other critical inputs."
[9]
Dr Ilia Kolochenko, CEO at ImmuniWeb and an Adjunct Professor of Cybersecurity at Capitol Technology University in Maryland, expressed concern over OpenAI's proposals.
"Arguably, the most problematic issue with the proposal – legally, practically, and socially speaking – is copyright," Kolochenko told The Register.
"Paying a truly fair fee to all authors – whose copyrighted content has already been or will be used to train powerful LLM models that are eventually aimed at competing with those authors – will probably be economically unviable," he claimed, as AI vendors "will never make profits."
[10]AI models hallucinate, and doctors are OK with that
[11]Nvidia won the AI training race, but inference is still anyone's game
[12]Brits end probe into Microsoft's $13B bankrolling of OpenAI
[13]Does terrible code drive you mad? Wait until you see what it does to OpenAI's GPT-4o
Advocating for a special regime or copyright exception for AI technologies is a slippery slope, he argues, adding that US lawmakers should regard OpenAI's proposals with a high degree of caution, mindful of the long-lasting consequences it may have on the American economy and legal system.
OpenAI also proposes maintaining the three-tiered [14]AI diffusion rule framework, but with some alterations to encourage other nations to commit "to deploy AI in line with democratic principles set out by the US government."
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The stated aim of this strategy is "to encourage global adoption of democratic AI principles, promoting the use of democratic AI systems while protecting US advantage."
OpenAI talks of expanding market share in Tier I countries (US allies) through the use of "American commercial diplomacy policy," banning the use of China-made equipment (think Huawei) and so on.
The ChatGPT lab also proposes "AI Economic Zones" to be created in America by local, state, and the federal government together with industry, which sounds similar to the UK government's " [16]AI Growth Zones ."
These will be intended to "speed up the permitting for building AI infrastructure like new solar arrays, wind farms, and nuclear reactors," and would allow exclusions from the National Environmental Policy Act, which requires federal agencies to evaluate the environmental impacts of their actions.
Finally, OpenAI proposes that federal agencies should "lead by example" on AI adoption. Uptake in federal departments and agencies remains "unacceptably low," the Microsoft-championed lab says, and wants to see the "removal of known blockers to the adoption of AI tools, including outdated and lengthy accreditation processes, restrictive testing authorities, and inflexible procurement pathways." ®
Updated to add
Google has also put out [17]its response [PDF] to the White House's action plan call, arguing also for fair use defenses and data-mining exceptions for AI training.
Get our [18]Tech Resources
[1] https://www.theregister.com/2024/08/20/anthropic_claude_copyright/
[2] https://cdn.openai.com/global-affairs/ostp-rfi/ec680b75-d539-4653-b297-8bcf6e5f7686/openai-response-ostp-nsf-rfi-notice-request-for-information-on-the-development-of-an-artificial-intelligence-ai-action-plan.pdf
[3] https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/2025/02/public-comment-invited-on-artificial-intelligence-action-plan/
[4] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/27/tech_stocks_tank_as_us/
[5] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2Z9NjkP9jyF4FcyWCI7WmNQAAAFE&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[6] https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/08/midjourney_openai_copyright/
[7] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Z9NjkP9jyF4FcyWCI7WmNQAAAFE&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[8] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33Z9NjkP9jyF4FcyWCI7WmNQAAAFE&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[9] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Z9NjkP9jyF4FcyWCI7WmNQAAAFE&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[10] https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/13/ai_models_hallucinate_and_doctors/
[11] https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/12/training_inference_shift/
[12] https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/05/cma_microsoft_openai/
[13] https://www.theregister.com/2025/02/27/llm_emergent_misalignment_study/
[14] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/09/us_weighing_global_limits_ai_exports/
[15] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33Z9NjkP9jyF4FcyWCI7WmNQAAAFE&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[16] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/13/uk_government_ai_plans/
[17] https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/publicpolicy.google/en//resources/response_us_ai_action_plan.pdf
[18] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Hi ! We want to steal everything...
And then sell it back to you...
Re: Hi ! We want to steal everything...
Yes because paying for stuff is economically unfeasible...
So let me just pirate all software, get all music from Napster (ok, that's no longer a thing, isn't it?) because actually buying stuff is economically unfeasible for me.
Re: Hi ! We want to steal everything...
You omit mentioning that the stuff people wish to 'steal' is sold at a price arbitrarily determined by the vendor. This despite digital 'content' lacking intrinsic scarcity, and anyway, lying around on the Internet for anyone with nous to discover and copy.
Analogy with genuine 'theft' of tangible objects breaks down immediately. You may refuse to sell someone your Rembrandt, this regardless of the price offered. If someone steals the painting, you are derived of its use as an ornament. Only one person at a time can possess it.
Suppose the thief is a kindly soul and returns the Rembrandt to you. Further, imagine the thief possesses technology enabling manufacture of perfect copies of a painting; copies indistinguishable by all known physical and chemical tests. The thief distributes copies among his acquaintances. You have lost nothing other than indisputable evidence of your painting's provenance.
It should be obvious where this leads.
Re: Hi ! We want to steal everything...
> Yes because paying for stuff is economically unfeasible...
Running an ad blocker?
Just sayin'.
Re: Hi ! We want to steal everything...
Yes, because my computing resources are mine. I do not allow just anybody to run their software on my machine. Just sayin' And I do pay for subscriptions to select content.
Re: Hi ! We want to steal everything...
But the computing resources necessary to create and deliver the content, as well as the support staff, and the talent aren't yours, are they?
Don't content creators need to get paid?
Of course, if you restrict your viewing and use to entirely to paid subscriptions then you're off the hook.
Renewed your subscription to The Register yet?
Re: Hi ! We want to steal everything...
My choice to remove some of the content before I read it is not the same as expecting to receive free copies of anything I like. For similar reasons, it is allowed if sites choose to detect my use of an ad blocker and refuse to send me the page. I won't be happy, but they can do it. My use of an ad blocker is also directly related to the advertising frequently being malicious in a way that harms me and the site on which the ads appear. These are not the same, and the argument is frequently misused by two groups of people, those who want to treat tracking as legally binding even when it may itself break the law, and people who wish all copyright infringement to be legal, to defend their incorrect points.
Re: Hi ! We want to steal everything...
The "Dispossesion Cycle" (copyright Zuboff) "a new economic order that claims human experience as free raw material for hidden commercial practices of extraction, prediction, and sales", "“an expropriation of critical human rights that is best understood as a coup from above: an overthrow of the people’s sovereignty.”" (The Age of Surveillance Capitalism).
EU instead of tariffs on bourbn whiskey or large, stupid motorcycles for a few fanatics, should hit hard exactly here - forbidding US companies to take advantage of EU data.
And OpenAI should learn that US laws are valid in US only. USA can't make laws abroad.
Re: Hi ! We want to steal everything...
>And OpenAI should learn that US laws are valid in US only. USA can't make laws abroad.
Plenty more room for 51st state......
Re: Hi ! We want to steal everything...
The USA has its Marines.
Re: Hi ! We want to steal everything...
How may the EU prevent people in the USA from harvesting whatever they want from the Internet?
Re: Hi ! We want to steal everything...
By enforcing copyright, GDPR, Digital Act, antitrust, and fining heavily those who break the rules?
Re: Hi ! We want to steal everything...
OpenAI should also learn that what they're doing isn't legal in the US either. Fair use has limited allowed uses. Taking the entire content for commercial purposes isn't one of them.
Not since Ringo Starr married Yoko Ono have I been so surprised
All my lies and bullshit are already Public Domain so OpenAI are free to take them and use them.
I expect they already have.
Re: Not since Ringo Starr married Yoko Ono have I been so surprised
You are causing me cognitive dissonance. I'll upvote up I don't like it since you've also polluted my own knowledge of the world.
wants the US government to stop foreign countries from trying to enforce copyright rules against it
They obviously believe that they've got a useful idiot in the White House now, and can realise their greediest dreams of plunder by appealing to his disdain for the rest of the world. It could however result in the complete breakdown of the entire international copyright system, which other US companies might want to consider before their intellectual property gets nicked in retaliation.
Re: stop foreign countries from trying to enforce copyright rules against it
I think I will start to ignore copyright on any US-made software. That's what EU should rule, that copyright on US software is void and everybody is free to use them as they like without paying a dime, and no legal action can be taken against them. Let's see how one of the biggest investor in OpenAI takes that...
wants the US government to stop foreign countries from trying to enforce copyright rules against it
" by appealing to his disdain for the rest of the world "
They might try, but the rest of the world has noticed. Some are moving to sideline their dependence on the US, others are waiting to move into the spaces left in their absence. Either way, I can't help but feel that the second Trump presidency will go down as the biggest self-own in America's ~250 years of being.
Which is a long winded way of saying that in time the response from the rest of the world may well be "go whistle".
While we're at it
We would also like to abolish the patent office and all forms of currency because some flavor of the month tech firm says so.
Re: While we're at it
The patent office? Excellent.
There are other ways for giving credit for invention. Also, just think of the number of lawyers to dispatch for useful labour, such as digging ditches.
Re: While we're at it
Patents, explicitly so in the US, are not applied for and granted in order to gain or give "credit". The time-limited patent monopoly is quid pro quo , the quo being full disclosure of the invention in the patent. This promotes the progress of technology, which is what the patent-granting State is interested in.
Re: While we're at it
The fact that you think patents' only value is assigning credit speaks volumes for why you're constantly making bad points about patents and copyright. Both exist to make it possible for someone to do the substantial work behind them and benefit from having done so, enabling people who don't have independent wealth to do this. Until you recognize that, you're never going to prove why they're bad or suggest improvements. Both systems have a lot of downsides, but while you continue to campaign for them to be shut down and worry only about credit, you will always be arguing against something you don't understand and making this obvious to most of those you're trying to convince.
To copyright or not to copyright
Funny, one side of corporate America has used copyright laws to maintain hegemony and crush innovation. Now another corporate American is wanting to bypass copyright laws saying it crushes innovation. I suppose this guy will copyright the stolen copyright material though. I feel they make it up as they go along.
Think of the bosses though, if they have to abide by laws then they'd be out of a job, then where would we be? We know where they'd be, jobless or in prison, but where would we be?
Re: To copyright or not to copyright
" I suppose this guy will copyright the stolen copyright material though. "
Isn't that why all the butthurt about DeepSeek apparently training itself off ChatGPT?
" I feel they make it up as they go along. "
All your base are belong to us.
Re: To copyright or not to copyright
Without delay all AI output should be public domain. OpenAI will get paid through their account subscriptions, that's enough.
AI output already cannot be copyrighted. And any training done on that data is adding something "orginal" - according to OpenAI et al.
In general the US economy is getting strangled to death by troll-booths on every road.
Yeee Ha!
Welcome to the new Wild West.! Grab as much as you can, to hell with the law, stake your claim, then mine and exploit the hell out of it. MAGA!
strategy to let America exert control over its allies
After all, what value is an ally if you can't exert control over it?
Scrape everything won't improve AI
See, you got to check what you feed to your child. If you feed it every crap you find you will only get crap.
Global demise of copyright is an inevitability - explain why not, if you can
I hold no brief for any of the AI production companies. However, should US AI developers be constrained to exist in the pretty walled garden provided by copyright, the fruit on their vines shall wither. The technology could thrive elsewhere. Regardless of whether AI lives up fully to the expectations of entrepreneurs, some aspects of its use evidently shall: one such is as an educational and research tool offering an annotated collection of human culture together with means to service enquiries by drawing from across literature databases; copies of this tool, some perhaps devoted to highly specific domains, can sit on individual computational devices, on more powerful institutional computers, and in 'the cloud'. Anyone imagining AI to be containable within the traditional commercial environment is deluded.
Arising from this is an irony. For instance, take Microsoft (MS), which is in the AI game. It would be difficult for MS to claim high moral ground when condemning 'free loaders' who copy MS software and use it without a licence. Private individuals do this with no prospect of comeback, could not corporate entities independent of MS demand greater 'fair use' of MS products?
Gradually, but at quickening pace, the intellectually stultifying atmosphere arising from the specious concept of 'intellectual property' is being cleansed by multiple individual acts of disobedience to outmoded law. There is a shift in trade from selling digital end-products (on a rigged monopolist market) to seeking patronage for use of skills (individual, and cooperative) in making (and for distributing with added value to zero) digital artefacts. A reckoning awaits for avaricious folk with a deep sense of 'entitlement'. The irony is compounded by the USA, the arch-rentier nation, housing the most powerful of disobedient entities.
Re: Global demise of copyright is an inevitability - explain why not, if you can
You mean patronage like two thousands years ago, when skilled people had to lick feet of oligarchs to sell them their works, at a price the oligarchs fixed? No, thank you. That's not freedom. It's serfdom.
"Paying a truly fair fee to all authors – whose copyrighted content has already been or will be used to train powerful LLM models that are eventually aimed at competing with those authors – will probably be economically unviable," he claimed, as AI vendors "will never make profits."
Awe boo hoo, the poor AI companies won't be able to make a profit unless they steal everyones copyright works. That just shows the business model is broken then.
Is ChatGPT that far removed from services such as Megaupload and Napster which also relied on other peoples IP to make money without compensating them?
I've bought a gun, a getaway car and have a crew ...
...I should be allowed to rob banks, otherwise how am I allowed to profit?
I've never come across a bunch of people more deserving of being put up against a wall and shot than this lot.
Bring on the revolution.
Checks notes. It's not April.
Checks calendar. No, definitely not April.
Checks internet for todays date. It's the middle of March. Which means it's not April or the beginning of said month.
What in the actual Shatners Bassoon is this?
I'm off to LLM some films. I mean if copyright is no more then that shouldn't be a problem right?
In all seriousness I get this horrible feeling that this AI push is to get people off the internet and to a system where you search and the AI gives you the answer rather than reading websites for convenience. That way the powers that be have yet more control over opinions and thought.
Oh, the creep is back...
Being too demanding?
"removal of known blockers to the adoption of AI tools, including outdated and lengthy accreditation processes, restrictive testing authorities ..."
After all, you don't have to prove it actually works, all we need is for you to adopt it.